Sunday, March 11, 2018
So propably quitting SW again.
So Dwight has again declared that anyone with sealed armor is immune to my pressure point attack. This means that my strongest combat talent can be negated in its entirety by someone who spends 1,000 credits upgrading his armor. Since no one else loses a combat talent, much less their most important and character-defining talent, to a 1,000-credit upgrade rendering them completely unable to participate in combat, I quit... Again.
I can't find a reason to continue playing my medic-tank if all important fights see my damage dropped to 5 or more points below anyone else, making it hopeless for me to help in the least. I already rarely even hit, and the damage bonus from pressure point is the only way I can equal the damage of the other characters which makes engaging in melee combat at least not disastrously harmful to the rest of the group. Otherwise against people in "sealed" armor cannot be hurt by my current attacks, and even after hundred of more experience point when I can add another five point to damage, my damage output will only be half of what Paul's and Curtis' character can put out, making it truly pointless for my character to even get into the fight (my character getting into the fight will actually make things worse for the party if my damage is pointless).
I can't find a reason to continue playing my medic-tank if all important fights see my damage dropped to 5 or more points below anyone else, making it hopeless for me to help in the least. I already rarely even hit, and the damage bonus from pressure point is the only way I can equal the damage of the other characters which makes engaging in melee combat at least not disastrously harmful to the rest of the group. Otherwise against people in "sealed" armor cannot be hurt by my current attacks, and even after hundred of more experience point when I can add another five point to damage, my damage output will only be half of what Paul's and Curtis' character can put out, making it truly pointless for my character to even get into the fight (my character getting into the fight will actually make things worse for the party if my damage is pointless).
// posted by S'Ren @ 2:40 PM 
Comments:
How dose running it like the books says but can't bypass soak depending on what makes sense at the moment.
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We'll just have to play board games when Kevin isn't running, or you guys can meet without me somewhere else since I won't play a typical rifle-wielder in star wars.
I didn't says all sealed armor i said Darth Vader's sealed armor.
1) he is only 45 percent flesh if most.
2) His body was 100 percent burned all over, he is a slab of crispy bacon. All scars and
burnt. Doesn't really have much of nerve endings or pressure points left.
3) His suit cause constant agonizing pain for him as long as he wears it, and he uses it to
fuel his power. Adding weaker short term pain not going to effect him.
4) his suit is not just cloth, it is lift support, has circuit boards and machinery layered
inside of it. So if you hit his body your not hitting his presser points your hitting
machine parts. he doesn't have armor like normal people do.
5) When, you showed me the power I said it wouldn't against people in heavy armor,
but would work with laminate and also heavy armor that is only breast plates cause it
would have exposed areas to work with.
6) The power says it only work on living creatures but if you cant make contact with the
living part how do you effect a person? You need contact.
7) Your not here to compete with the other. Your hear to RP, to write a story. And picking
up a gun is Star Wars is no big feet, hell rob was doing that with no skill. You made
the choice on how you wanted to play the character, don't give up can't deal with the a
flaw you made a choice to take. As far as i know, those 2 do not have an attack that
cannot be soak. If you add in the soak values of mobs, you will find you do more damage
them then or your on par. When you fought the rancor, with 13 soak, only you would have
done any damage. You are the only one that can smack down a rancor barehanded right now.
8)Right now, your power removes all chance of soak from forces Fields and armor except
total body heavy armor.
Now if you wish to talk about it, I am up for talking.
1) he is only 45 percent flesh if most.
2) His body was 100 percent burned all over, he is a slab of crispy bacon. All scars and
burnt. Doesn't really have much of nerve endings or pressure points left.
3) His suit cause constant agonizing pain for him as long as he wears it, and he uses it to
fuel his power. Adding weaker short term pain not going to effect him.
4) his suit is not just cloth, it is lift support, has circuit boards and machinery layered
inside of it. So if you hit his body your not hitting his presser points your hitting
machine parts. he doesn't have armor like normal people do.
5) When, you showed me the power I said it wouldn't against people in heavy armor,
but would work with laminate and also heavy armor that is only breast plates cause it
would have exposed areas to work with.
6) The power says it only work on living creatures but if you cant make contact with the
living part how do you effect a person? You need contact.
7) Your not here to compete with the other. Your hear to RP, to write a story. And picking
up a gun is Star Wars is no big feet, hell rob was doing that with no skill. You made
the choice on how you wanted to play the character, don't give up can't deal with the a
flaw you made a choice to take. As far as i know, those 2 do not have an attack that
cannot be soak. If you add in the soak values of mobs, you will find you do more damage
them then or your on par. When you fought the rancor, with 13 soak, only you would have
done any damage. You are the only one that can smack down a rancor barehanded right now.
8)Right now, your power removes all chance of soak from forces Fields and armor except
total body heavy armor.
Now if you wish to talk about it, I am up for talking.
What i meant by sealed, was that he had no exposed presser points, and not sealed as inthe sealed armor trait.
You've never said "only darth vader".
But even so, if we came upon him as an epic end to the campaign, I would still have to sit out because without the damage bonus, even if I got all triumphs on the roll and by some miracle rolled only "blanks" on the bad dice, I still would deal no damage what so ever. So our epic final battle would literally involve me just sitting out, which as a combat character is not acceptable. I'm not all built for combat now, but the plan was to be a bad ass martial artist, and having to sit out fights against people in heavy armor because I cannot harm them in any way is not acceptable.
I've offered compromises, but you've always said "no". You've also said you'd otherwise just make all enemies droids, which tells me you intend to make the talent useless in all important fights, so all memorable fights will involve me simply retreating from combat and waiting for it to end. I didn't choose the path of a brawler just to be the awesome minion-eater. The damage done to the party by me getting into melee range can't totally overshadow my ability to actually help end a fight, and you intent to make pressure point useless in all important fights means that I can't participate in any "boss" fights. When the gun bunnies get their weapons modded and reach their deadly accuracy talents (should have already happened for our bounty hunter, but no one has mentioned weapon mods yet for some reason) their damage will be higher than mine by the amount of soak most humanoid opponents will have. You won't complain about their ability to take someone like vader down in two shots, but you find it unacceptable that on a lucky roll, I might be able to do the same.
No one else suffer the complete loss of a talent because the enemy buys some type of armor.
Also, the talent doesn't ignore force fields at all since they don't provide soak, nor any other source of damage reduction that isn't labeled soak (such as the parry talent)
I'm not demanding to out damage everyone or even be equal to the bounty hunter, but I won't play if my role in combat as a martial artist is to flee the scene so that I don't suck up blue dice that my allies need because my character cannot make any use of them.
But even so, if we came upon him as an epic end to the campaign, I would still have to sit out because without the damage bonus, even if I got all triumphs on the roll and by some miracle rolled only "blanks" on the bad dice, I still would deal no damage what so ever. So our epic final battle would literally involve me just sitting out, which as a combat character is not acceptable. I'm not all built for combat now, but the plan was to be a bad ass martial artist, and having to sit out fights against people in heavy armor because I cannot harm them in any way is not acceptable.
I've offered compromises, but you've always said "no". You've also said you'd otherwise just make all enemies droids, which tells me you intend to make the talent useless in all important fights, so all memorable fights will involve me simply retreating from combat and waiting for it to end. I didn't choose the path of a brawler just to be the awesome minion-eater. The damage done to the party by me getting into melee range can't totally overshadow my ability to actually help end a fight, and you intent to make pressure point useless in all important fights means that I can't participate in any "boss" fights. When the gun bunnies get their weapons modded and reach their deadly accuracy talents (should have already happened for our bounty hunter, but no one has mentioned weapon mods yet for some reason) their damage will be higher than mine by the amount of soak most humanoid opponents will have. You won't complain about their ability to take someone like vader down in two shots, but you find it unacceptable that on a lucky roll, I might be able to do the same.
No one else suffer the complete loss of a talent because the enemy buys some type of armor.
Also, the talent doesn't ignore force fields at all since they don't provide soak, nor any other source of damage reduction that isn't labeled soak (such as the parry talent)
I'm not demanding to out damage everyone or even be equal to the bounty hunter, but I won't play if my role in combat as a martial artist is to flee the scene so that I don't suck up blue dice that my allies need because my character cannot make any use of them.
We haven't said anything about modding our weapons because, one, we haven't had the money to do so (and we kind of still don't have a lot that all of us can mod our guns, and two, because we haven't had any time to do such modding without losing the weapon to the person/NPC that would be doing it for several missions.
Now that we have 3 months of downtime, it would be the most appropriate time to get them done, but I don't really know what kind of income we have over those 3 months and what kind of money Curtis might need to get his done. I can get mine totalled up by the end of tonight and post that and also see what I have for party funds from our missions and post that.
Now that we have 3 months of downtime, it would be the most appropriate time to get them done, but I don't really know what kind of income we have over those 3 months and what kind of money Curtis might need to get his done. I can get mine totalled up by the end of tonight and post that and also see what I have for party funds from our missions and post that.
Starts with a GM not hostile to the idea of a fist fighter in a SW game. I don't know why you hate the idea so much, but that was this character's plan from the start.
If you need to make him less powerful for boss encounters just remove one of the talent's two benefits for boss fights instead of declaring bosses immune to it. The offensive part of "that talent doesn't work on people in sealed armor" is that without that talent, a fist fighter only gets in the way and actually lowers the teams chance of success in a tough fight.
The fist fighter's potential to help end the fight (damage is the only real option here) needs to be at lease equal to the harm done by giving all other team members the friend-in-melee penalty (baring bad die rolls, of course). If his contribution isn't equal to the penalty he provides, then he further hurts the party be sucking up the cheap blue dice simply because he has a spot in the initiative order. So without being able to contribute to ending a fight, the whole party would factually be better off if he was not present in the scene at all (he'd have to not be in the initiative order at all). This doesn't even account for the minimum 1-in-12 chance of being shot by party members forcing them to deal with an unconscious party member (one shot from a fully modded rifle by a gageteer with max deadly accuracy will one-shot the soak 6 martial artist, so there's a chance he will never get more than one attack in a fight).
If you need to make him less powerful for boss encounters just remove one of the talent's two benefits for boss fights instead of declaring bosses immune to it. The offensive part of "that talent doesn't work on people in sealed armor" is that without that talent, a fist fighter only gets in the way and actually lowers the teams chance of success in a tough fight.
The fist fighter's potential to help end the fight (damage is the only real option here) needs to be at lease equal to the harm done by giving all other team members the friend-in-melee penalty (baring bad die rolls, of course). If his contribution isn't equal to the penalty he provides, then he further hurts the party be sucking up the cheap blue dice simply because he has a spot in the initiative order. So without being able to contribute to ending a fight, the whole party would factually be better off if he was not present in the scene at all (he'd have to not be in the initiative order at all). This doesn't even account for the minimum 1-in-12 chance of being shot by party members forcing them to deal with an unconscious party member (one shot from a fully modded rifle by a gageteer with max deadly accuracy will one-shot the soak 6 martial artist, so there's a chance he will never get more than one attack in a fight).
And i am not saying sealed, armor with total coverage of the body(not including cloth or leather).
The power only works on pressure points and you have to make contact with them. If a situation that comes up where you can't meet those 2 conditions, wouldn't it stop the power? It doesn't allow you punch threw steal or harden plastic. I was looking at the armor and seeing how much harden cover it provided, and how many gaps. Base laminate and storm-trooper armor you got all day even the heavy armor that is breastplate only.
It is not the fist fight idea, it is the base 11(6 drawn +5 med) damage right now, that is unsoakable. I spent 4 hours on FF web siting looking for a solution. All i found there was people getting it up to 18 to 30 unsoakable damage. 1 camps says house rule it, the other camp says no need too, when it is equal to duel wielding light sabers with saber bomb, and auto fire from vehicle weapons and anti vehicle weapons. Not one minion or rival or nemesis can take one average hit and that is before duel wielding.
I didn't want game to be a power creep game where it comes down to me one shooting players and players one shooting mobs. I don't want to min max every mob. I don't care about one shot minions, and rivals should pose some problems and nemesis should be a challenge. a good fight, breaking a sweat taking out massive amount of minions, a group of rivals equal to your numbers, 2.5 to 4 rounds, but a good nemesis solo, 4 to 7 rounds for a group fight.
This is what i am thinking. I am leaving this up to you on how you want to go with the power, you want to keep it as is or come up with something, post it and let me know.
The power only works on pressure points and you have to make contact with them. If a situation that comes up where you can't meet those 2 conditions, wouldn't it stop the power? It doesn't allow you punch threw steal or harden plastic. I was looking at the armor and seeing how much harden cover it provided, and how many gaps. Base laminate and storm-trooper armor you got all day even the heavy armor that is breastplate only.
It is not the fist fight idea, it is the base 11(6 drawn +5 med) damage right now, that is unsoakable. I spent 4 hours on FF web siting looking for a solution. All i found there was people getting it up to 18 to 30 unsoakable damage. 1 camps says house rule it, the other camp says no need too, when it is equal to duel wielding light sabers with saber bomb, and auto fire from vehicle weapons and anti vehicle weapons. Not one minion or rival or nemesis can take one average hit and that is before duel wielding.
I didn't want game to be a power creep game where it comes down to me one shooting players and players one shooting mobs. I don't want to min max every mob. I don't care about one shot minions, and rivals should pose some problems and nemesis should be a challenge. a good fight, breaking a sweat taking out massive amount of minions, a group of rivals equal to your numbers, 2.5 to 4 rounds, but a good nemesis solo, 4 to 7 rounds for a group fight.
This is what i am thinking. I am leaving this up to you on how you want to go with the power, you want to keep it as is or come up with something, post it and let me know.
Still arguing this is causing way too much stress. Reason enough to quit. I made the character to follow a path I tried to follow in four separate Saga edition campaigns. His primary combat method is supposed to be Tara Kasi (something no longer really in cannon beyond a mention of its existence; a powerful martial art supported in SAGA edition rules). Being a martial artist is completely pointless if your damage is limited to 4 or 5, it will almost never overcome soak. So if he gets no benefit from cool boss encounters, then I'm basically being told to go sit in a corner and try not to get in the way for all of the memorable encounters. I'm not designing a character that only participates against CR 0.5 goblins and otherwise pouts in a corner because he can't hurt anything else (and I've had precisely one meaningful punch the entire campaign which required us to cheat for the first fight of the campaign, since then barely dealt a point of damage and spent lots of stimpacks healing myself during fights to just stay conscious).
That being said, while I like the idea of fights that last more than a couple rounds, they already don't and that has nothing to do with the good Doctor Boring. Blaster rifles with a base damage of 9 already end fights quickly when wielded by untrained/untalented characters. With the 100 XP from the group goals, Pasht probably has deady accuracy and point blank, although I don't know what combat skill she chose, I just suspect it was ranged (heavy). Her damage after soak will already beat the Doctor's pre-soak with his current skill, and that will likely be the case the entire campaign. So the Doctor's pressure point talent isn't going to be an unbalancing point simply by having some sort of use in a boss fight. As I've said before, boss fights are the only ones that really matter, no one will ever tell the story again of the martial artist who bravely slaughters a bunch of harmless goblins while his friends battled the demon.
While I don't know what saber bomb is, it is no where near the damage of anti-vehicle weapons, which start at dmg. 20, and most have pierce or breach ratings, which makes them ignore most if not all soak. Lightsabers all have a breach rating of at least 1 (except for training sabers) which ignores 10 points of soak, and if the lightsaber wielder gets a talent from a non-jedi tree to increase his damage, he does way better with a lightsaber than a pressure point attack. It is possible to lightsaber wielders to do way more, but that's not really part of this discussion. Just that all of the other high-damage attacks aren't actually less lethal than a non-lethal pressure point attack.
Resisting pressure point attacks is not impossible by the rules, the parry and resolve talents both work by reducing damage (they don't add soak) and strain heals during a fight easily. Deadly accuracy only work's once per rounds, so I have no idea how they're getting such high damage numbers on both attacks when dual wielding, but there must be some silly builds and creative rule interpretations involved.
For house rules to nerf it, just either decide the either it can bypass soak but doesn't get the damage increase or it gets the damage increase but can't bypass soak depending on which makes more sense at the moment for the boss. I don't see pressure point attacks as just attempting acupuncture with your fingers, but finding and exploiting weaknesses that any organism has.
That being said, while I like the idea of fights that last more than a couple rounds, they already don't and that has nothing to do with the good Doctor Boring. Blaster rifles with a base damage of 9 already end fights quickly when wielded by untrained/untalented characters. With the 100 XP from the group goals, Pasht probably has deady accuracy and point blank, although I don't know what combat skill she chose, I just suspect it was ranged (heavy). Her damage after soak will already beat the Doctor's pre-soak with his current skill, and that will likely be the case the entire campaign. So the Doctor's pressure point talent isn't going to be an unbalancing point simply by having some sort of use in a boss fight. As I've said before, boss fights are the only ones that really matter, no one will ever tell the story again of the martial artist who bravely slaughters a bunch of harmless goblins while his friends battled the demon.
While I don't know what saber bomb is, it is no where near the damage of anti-vehicle weapons, which start at dmg. 20, and most have pierce or breach ratings, which makes them ignore most if not all soak. Lightsabers all have a breach rating of at least 1 (except for training sabers) which ignores 10 points of soak, and if the lightsaber wielder gets a talent from a non-jedi tree to increase his damage, he does way better with a lightsaber than a pressure point attack. It is possible to lightsaber wielders to do way more, but that's not really part of this discussion. Just that all of the other high-damage attacks aren't actually less lethal than a non-lethal pressure point attack.
Resisting pressure point attacks is not impossible by the rules, the parry and resolve talents both work by reducing damage (they don't add soak) and strain heals during a fight easily. Deadly accuracy only work's once per rounds, so I have no idea how they're getting such high damage numbers on both attacks when dual wielding, but there must be some silly builds and creative rule interpretations involved.
For house rules to nerf it, just either decide the either it can bypass soak but doesn't get the damage increase or it gets the damage increase but can't bypass soak depending on which makes more sense at the moment for the boss. I don't see pressure point attacks as just attempting acupuncture with your fingers, but finding and exploiting weaknesses that any organism has.
How dose running it like the books says but can't bypass soak depending on what makes sense at the moment.
Sure.
Corned beef and smoked Italian sausage for dinner. I'll cook a potato of some sort or maybe rice too.
Corned beef and smoked Italian sausage for dinner. I'll cook a potato of some sort or maybe rice too.
Ok, guys, can't we all just get along? All this bickering is getting us nowhere. It seems every week or every other week you two are fighting over some rule or another. Its a FUCKING game. I seem to remember there was a fight in this game not too long that I could not do anything to the BOSS(or whatever that creature was labeled) and I just had to leave the fight. There are going to be fights that some of us cannot fight in. Whether that be we don't have weapons that can't get through their armor/soak or they are immune to a talent that we have because of their armor/soak. In a fight against droids, how are you going to use your pressure point attack against them? I'm positive they don't have pressure points, so, that attack will not work against them and if it has, then maybe we should look at playing another game, because that is definitely something not right. I also seem to remember a movie (Rogue One) where the martial artist practically did no fighting in the final battle scene. He used his ranged weapon a few times, but he did NOT use any martial arts to fight with. So, just like him, anybody could be sitting behind a barricade and doing nothing towards the fight.
Ok, so, I did the calculation for modding my pistol(s) and it will be 5800 credits per pistol. What I have for the party money is about 25,000. So, I would need 11,600 credits to outfit my two pistols.
Ok, so, I've been laid up at home for the past two days with a hurt foot. I can't walk on it and I'm only able to get around my apartment because of my computer chair. I don't know how long this is going to go on, but I hope it will get better by Saturday at the latest. If not, I'll post another post here to let you know I'm not coming.
So, if my foot hasn't fallen off over night, I should be there, but, I'll have a boot on my foot and possibly using crutches. So, please bare with me and if I'm not the first person there, please make sure I have one of the front parking spaces so it will make it easier for me to get in and out of the house.
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